something i'd like to say / further improvements

Rasmarite

Member
Mar 30, 2021
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so i'd like to put something in here

currently playing ZE and apparently there is a priority list of who can say to call and when

I'd like to see this changed because there is no reason why one person should have priority over another in this game

now i can understand it being a genuine mistake on my part of calling early in this one case, but in the last several rounds i have often said when to call and not been punished for it.

allowing a player to continue to the end of the map and then killing him right before the end is honestly a huge issue, it is like being spit in the face

1) I propose that admin policy be changed so that the player is allowed to finish the match, but the escape deducted from their total escapes.

2) each map should have a console message at the start or perhaps an admin message automatically displayed saying at what time stamp it is okay to call on that map

in this current situation i didn't know someone was at the button already, i thought i was 2nd from the front in the runner group. so when someone said to call, i responded with call because it should of been at least 20 more seconds before it was pressed. but the person who asked was already there, so this was a mistake on my part, so i hold my hand to that

but being slayed right at the end of an intense game is a spit in the face

and considering that some maps you cannot complete as humans without a defence team, perhaps we could have a notification saying which team you're meant to be on
my thinking would be
1) people below level 5 run
2) people above level 5 defend
this way the slower players get to the escape first and there are obviously then faster, more experienced players able to make it to the escape.


the line between what you're suppose to do and not suppose to do is very thin, for example you're not suppose to close on team.
so if the whole team passes, but you have 1 guy behind
this guy is running at the door, but if he makes it through so will the zms, you're not allowed to close on him, there for the zms can rush ahead.
why is there no margin for acceptable loss, because if you too slow then you simply too slow, when escaping in a team you have to think of the whole team, if your actions put the rest of the team at risk, then why not have an acceptable margin for loss?

a time should be displayed for each map and this should be the time for fast call, each map only lasts a few minutes as it is.

but if i'm not allowed to say when to call
then i have no say in how this game is played.
sometimes things don't get closed, sometimes people make mistakes.

an enjoyable game has just been shat on yet again, i hold my hand up to my own mistakes, but honestly, something needs to be done about this.

and for the record even in this example, zms still managed to get on the boat and slay us, despite it being an early call. which only proves me point. i will hold my hands up to my mistakes, but given the circumstances i don't think we called early enough.

if i can't tell me team mates to call then i'm just a bot.
if there is no prompt when to call without an admin then no one can technically call

as a final note i'd like to say i think the boss damage for the new set up should counted up rather than being how much max damage you've done. you could then just increase the amount of damage your need or perhaps even lower the rewards

TLDR:
1) post a minimum early time on each map when players are allowed to call (this way they can just call and if they call early its either because zms are fast or a mistake)
2) players which make genuine mistakes but win on the map, should have that win removed (remove 1 escape)
3) have clearer rules for runners and defenders (below level 5 run, above level 5 defend)
4) have clearer rules for standing on edges or being against bars (aka clear rules for kiss zms)
5) boss maps have increased, please have the damage from each fight stack, you can increase the amount of damage needed and maybe lower the reward a little if required.
6) in the event of a wrong slay (which has happend to me) lost escapes should be restored

ty
 
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LeGeNd

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Mar 28, 2021
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- In the first scenario as I understood, that if you are a runner and calls after a 'human' or simply say 'deffer' says to call, then it's NOT the callers mistake. It's the mistake of that human to say "call". And as much I know, the admin always slay the one who says to call.
- Your idea is good about deducting escapes rather than getting slayed at last or maybe he should be slayed next round, maybe a plugin will help for it.
- There's no fixed time. I mean, mainly we call at a fixed time but you should know not always, sometimes, it depends on how well deff is going, so trust to ask for call in some maps :)
So, the fixed time won't work in some rounds.
- About that gate, I think humans can use their guns to cover the last human who Is behind, you can shoot zombies!

Though not here to say your ideas are bad, they are Pretty Well!
I well pretty agree if their can be something like rule book or some tips and guide type, it will help new players and may help server to get rid of some bots 😀
 

Rasmarite

Member
Mar 30, 2021
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- In the first scenario as I understood, that if you are a runner and calls after a 'human' or simply say 'deffer' says to call, then it's NOT the callers mistake. It's the mistake of that human to say "call". And as much I know, the admin always slay the one who says to call.
- Your idea is good about deducting escapes rather than getting slayed at last or maybe he should be slayed next round, maybe a plugin will help for it.
- There's no fixed time. I mean, mainly we call at a fixed time but you should know not always, sometimes, it depends on how well deff is going, so trust to ask for call in some maps :)
So, the fixed time won't work in some rounds.
- About that gate, I think humans can use their guns to cover the last human who Is behind, you can shoot zombies!

Though not here to say your ideas are bad, they are Pretty Well!
I well pretty agree if their can be something like rule book or some tips and guide type, it will help new players and may help server to get rid of some bots 😀

yeah, like i said i'll hold my hand up to my mistake there, but being slayed right at the end of the round, is a spit in the face, either deduct the escape if it was unfair or just slay at the start of next round and this one is already done.
in that round myself and the person infront of me had said call, if we waited till we still got there, zms would of won, which they did that round anyway, despite the early call, so i feel like this is not just one but two wrong slays. but thats a different issue.

each map i believe is 5 minutes long, this may vary on some smaller maps.
so have a rule of thumb
big maps: can call after 2 minutes have passed.
small maps can call after 1 minute.

I have seen admin have text displayed saying "defenders fall back!" or "defend defend defend" to me this is evidence of that because i have played the same maps and at the same time stamp not seen this, so to me it suggests and admin does it.
so having a small plug which will auto post the fast call time for each map shouldn't be unrealistic at all.

it means anyone can go and call the escape without needing prompting, no slays for early calls.

you could equally put a varience of 10 seconds on either side
call at 3 minutes, allow a varience of 10 seconds +/- meaning call time between 2:50 -> 3:10 on big maps) this will also help account for

the gate thing, maybe is too tactical as has been pointed out on discord, but think about it

if you close
you close on team = slay

you don't close
you're helping zms = slay

you as a player, literally have no chance, you can try to def, but you can't shoot them all and you get over run.

and I see people get slayed for this all the time, i have even argued this point myself with admin.



TLDR: there are workable, viable, solutions to these issues which are not implemented, if they were. the admin can spend more time playing the game themselves and dealing with trolls and hackers.
in a game where the authority to call should be free for anyone, it is wrong for certain players to have priority over others especially if they're admin.

just put a time requirement as a display, you don't need to change the map mechanics at all.
below level 5 run for end of map
above level 5 deff

troll = escape reduction -> slay -> ban
repeat offenders get longer bans (this is already the case)

wrong slays should not only have escape restored, but should also be gifted an apology bonus


Solution:
someone needs to run these maps basically as a solo player at the lowest level to find the best call time for each map

run time + 35 seconds

humans at level 50 run at 300 per second
zms will run at over 300 + level

so realistically there needs to be a correction on rules and information for all players,
 

Rasmarite

Member
Mar 30, 2021
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so egypt is a 3 minute map
its 1 minute run to the end of the map and call the boat
30 seconds for boat to arrive
10 seconds before it leaves
earliest you can call is 1minute 10 seconds on this map
if team is slow and defending, you can call at 45 seconds left in the round and only kill zms, depending on how well the zms play

boat escape is 4 minutes

as a zms i got to the grated boat ramp at exactly 3 minutes

as a human the boat was called at exactly 3 minutes

the zms are very fast behind humans on this map

the time for the boat to pull away is 30 seconds. this is about average for other maps with helicopters and other such things

5 minute maps = fast call after 1 minute 15
4 minute maps = fast call after 1 minute
3 minute maps = fast call after 55 seconds

with varience of 10 seconds the fastest possible time which should be acceptable for a player to call should be

5 minutes = after 1 minute 5 seconds have passed
4 minutes = after 50 seconds have passed
3 minutes = after 45 second have passed

to be clear the timer displayed at the bottom of the map will be
(round time) 5:00 --> 3:45 (fast call)
(round time) 4:00 --> 3:10 (fast call)
(round time) 3:00 --> 2:05 (fast call)

jurrassic4reverse is a 4 minute map and the chopper wasn't called untill 2:10 and had taken off again by roughly 1:20 so this is about 10 - 15 seconds for it to get to the landing zone, 30 seconds for people to get on before it takes off again out of reach.

the italy map is the same.

if there is a dedicated runner it takes "give or take" about 2 seconds to hit these targets, having rules splitting players into runners and def players makes total sense.

the higher the level the more you stay back to defend

literally have just played on these 3 maps and with a dedicated runner this would of been the earliest times to fast call.


having a system message similar to the "random information" can be programmed in, i don't see why "map information" can't be added as a feature related to what map you're on

"map information: call after 3:10, hold for defenders"


this map specifcally needs not only defenders but also fast call
my fast call system should work, basically this map is "CoC" or "call on contact"
meaning first person there, just call

suddenly the rules make more sense for new members and experienced players know to deff the newbros
 

ye1ye1

Member
Mar 27, 2021
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I agree on compensation system for mistaken slays and boss damage achievement.

Even for ziFgodx the lowest ping (ideal environment for shooting) and all-time best defender struggles to get 50k on average runs, you know this achievement is not about easy/hard but possible/impossible to finish.

Let alone the fact that I could only do my best dmg (33k) under a rare '1 vs boss' circumstance. (270pings btw)

As for the calling timing, best idea I ever came up on my mind is: set an invisible line for every map so that even the slowest player (AWP + lvl0 + basic movement) can reach the extraction point on time once they pass it. Just a minor QoL improvement, not necessary tho since current 'ask for call' method been working well.
 
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Rasmarite

Member
Mar 30, 2021
48
81
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I agree on compensation system for mistaken slays and boss damage achievement.

Even for ziFgodx the lowest ping (ideal environment for shooting) and all-time best defender struggles to get 50k on average runs, you know this achievement is not about easy/hard but possible/impossible to finish.

Let alone the fact that I could only do my best dmg (33k) under a rare '1 vs boss' circumstance. (270pings btw)

As for the calling timing, best idea I ever came up on my mind is: set an invisible line for every map so that even the slowest player (AWP + lvl0 + basic movement) can reach the extraction point on time once they pass it. Just a minor QoL improvement, not necessary tho since current 'ask for call' method been working well.
its interesting i have thought about the invisible line too, this can cause some serious problems though, people not wanting to run or intentionally taking their time. it also means modifying the map some

however i'm not sure who made these maps or even if they still work on the project, the best thing to do would be to implement a player wide knowledge of when its acceptable to call. like what i listed above
how to gather this information is simply to run across the map as the lowest level human which is the slowest and make a note of the time.

you then add some varience in time due to human error like making mistakes, running into walls, missing a jump etc.

a max level human level 50 will still be caught by a zms because zms get over 300 speed + level

have a displayed message come up saying
map information: call @ [insert time]
players below level 5 run.
everyone else, defend.

super easy.

an easy rule of thumb is that people should be allowed to call after 1 minute on each map without prompt from anyone.
if you call early, then you can complete the match but won't get the escape
do it again = slay
do it again = ban

because its clear you're trolling

if admin doesn't have this power, then just slay them at the start of the next match, which is the normal thing to do anyway.

so these proposed changes are only very very small.

if the changes can't be put into game, have a dedicated forum post about it.
new bros can then not only link their steam account but also read the rules.

which make game play a now clearer more coherant aspect

this is just an example
"maps have 3 - 5 minute game play time.

it is acceptable to call for escape after 1 minute on each map

if you call early, you will not recieve the escape from that round
you can however call early if you are told to by an admin"

which i think is 100% both rational and fair, this way if an admin is busy killing zms and doesn't have the chance to prompt when they should, all players know when its safe to call.

it will make the game more of a fluid and organic experience.

TLDR: implement a basic of a rule of thumb for all players as well as clear instructions displayed here on the website, this will strengthen the community, reducing trolling.
deduct escapes from trolls before slay, this will deter trolls in game.

RE the boss damage:
I was in a boss fight the other day and i lagged during a match and got killed by the boss, this is no one's fault, its one of those things which happened, but i stayed connected to the end of the match, in this circumstance, although it sucks for the lag, my damage could of counted towards my achievement, this ultimately meant I could of walked away with some kind of benefit.

I lost my damage which got to 9k for the first time, truthfully the damage dealt should accumilate at the end of the match, when the boss dies
over time you then build up total damage done and the reward threashold could be increased for example 40k to maybe 80k - 100k meaning you have to fight multiple boss battles to achieve it. this will only drive players who like to achieve things in a strong way. that's just an example though and liable to change should the owners like my ideas.

RE compensation for wrong slays:
100% when you're playing ze escape and you get into the zone you're having fun, joking with people on text in game, you get wrong slayed, it kills the whole experience because everything just stops abruptly with no warning and kills your rythem it completely nukes your immersion into the game.

just a small note:

i understand that at the moment some people might think that i'm unhappy due to recent events or only posting this stuff to be spiteful to a specific person, but truthfully these suggestions simply come from observations and experience i have encountered while playing

i have made similar suggestions in the past and (I'd like to think) because of that we now have the new and improved system, weather or not it came from my idea or not i don't know.

honestly i see full server quite a lot of the time now and sometimes i even struggle to connect into the game, the ZE 1.6 is truthfully a strong game and does have great admin and great players (other than the trolls) we all laugh and joke together and I just want my voice to be heard and taken seriously to help further build and improve the community just because 1.6 is an old game doesn't mean people don't still love it for nostalga or anything like that

I will hold my hand up to perhaps at times being a bit bitter about things, I also understand that people do genuinely make mistakes, like how I did when i did the early call or when an admin slays the wrong person, we're only human. but even if you put that to one side I have felt for a while now during my game play experience that very small tweeks could benefit the community as a whole, it would make the admin's job easier, reduce trolling and have clearer guide lines for players. all this = stronger community

I may of been rude and disrespectful the other day and i fully hold my hand to that, but it truthfully only served as a catalyst for me to step forward and try to help make the community stronger.

we're all sitting behind a computer somewhere in the world playing the same game, if we have easy access to knowledge of how to play the same game, then the experience only gets better.

proposal:
on the fourm have two states "basic member" and "full member"
basic members are intended for new bro's who join the website and want to look around, they have access to the rules and cannot link steam account or create any threads, they can however respond to posts.

they can then sign their name on the rules thread. once this is done they recieve a DM on the website, with instructions on how to link their stream account.

once they do this they can be given "full member" bonuses, including being allowed to claim daily rewards in game.

this would mean some sifting around the forum stuff, but would be rather simple. or you could implement the two membership styles on the forum for people who joined after [insert date here]

this way exisiting members don't need to do anything, but new bros to the community will have to read and understand the rules and how it works.
 

DesTRoyer

Member
ZE Admin
Mar 26, 2021
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well thats just being a lazy admin.

TLDR:
Me: I have a few more simple suggestions to help strengthen the community on an out dated game
Admin: idfc words are hard
I'm not sure you know what the joke is and I can't understand why you take so seriously what I'm saying... Just relax and play your game because really our server owners and developers are already doing the best they can..
 

Rasmarite

Member
Mar 30, 2021
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I'm not sure you know what the joke is and I can't understand why you take so seriously what I'm saying... Just relax and play your game because really our server owners and developers are already doing the best they can..
no need to be defensive, besides i'm allowed to make suggestions
 
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the line between what you're suppose to do and not suppose to do is very thin, for example you're not suppose to close on team.
so if the whole team passes, but you have 1 guy behind
this guy is running at the door, but if he makes it through so will the zms, you're not allowed to close on him, there for the zms can rush ahead.
why is there no margin for acceptable loss, because if you too slow then you simply too slow, when escaping in a team you have to think of the whole team, if your actions put the rest of the team at risk, then why not have an acceptable margin for loss?

wanna comment about this and say that u r very right. when i personally play, i follow that thing. But the admin, who hasn't tolerate it is stupid (rude but reality). That admin just read rules and cant see anything else than that. Not using brain at all and that admin should be fucked off.

If saving 1 human will faill all team, then fuck that human and let him behind!
 

Rasmarite

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Mar 30, 2021
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wanna comment about this and say that u r very right. when i personally play, i follow that thing. But the admin, who hasn't tolerate it is stupid (rude but reality). That admin just read rules and cant see anything else than that. Not using brain at all and that admin should be fucked off.

If saving 1 human will faill all team, then fuck that human and let him behind!
gotta admit Garayev, i really love this response, because this to me solves a big issue in my mind, if you as the owner agree with the fact a person can close the door to prevent a team loss, then whoever is on the other side is acceptable losses.

its one thing when someone runs through the door and closes to troll

its another when you're waiting for team and you see zms creeping and you wait you all dead meat.

if saving humans means team fail then fuck that human, leave him behind

i mean, admins have rules to follow, but for me its the strictness of the rule like i said before

you hold for humans and they die = helping zms = slay
you close on humans = slay

i guess the best way to check would be for admins to check the time when the door was pressed vs humans dying

this way if someone closes the door and humans die within a very short time like 5 - 20 seconds after, then the zms were most likely right there
but if its been like 1 minute or something, either the player is avoiding zms that good or the door was closed on purpose.
 
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